Joe Rogan Experience #1175 – Chris Kresser & Dr. Joel Kahn


Chris Kresser, M.S., L.Ac is a globally recognized leader in the fields of ancestral health, Paleo nutrition, and functional and integrative medicine. Dr. Joel Kahn is one of the world’s top cardiologists and believes that plant-based nutrition is the most powerful source of preventative medicine on the planet.


45 Comments

  1. My grandfather is from Sardinia and it was and might still be the second oldest population per capita. Dr Kahn refereed to Sardinia to back up a low plant based diet. When I've gone there to see family they are obsessed with meat products and vegetables are considered a side. But they traditionally fight over the fatty cuts and biggest meat cuts. This also happens in Greece when I've seen family there. They do use olive oil, but they also have a high fat, high meet diet. Not a low fat diet. I used to say I was going to be a vegetarian as a kid and My grandparents couldn't understand it as meat was so important from a culturally instilled view. They have a lot closer a relationship with animals for consumption than we do in most modern countries. With sheep and cattle walking down the street in many places. Its about a balanced diet and whole foods without additives.

  2. Joe "confirmation bias" Rogan. He hammered Joel about the flawed studies that Kresser brought up but he didn't once hammer Kresser about the meta analysis of 395 metabolic ward experiments that Joel brought up.

  3. Only thing I feel confident that I took away from this podcast is Joel is a mutant if he’s actually 60 years old. Fucking ridiculous.

  4. DR KAHN would have won this debate hands down, if it had been moderated FAIRLY. Joe did numerous things to weaken Dr Kahn’s voice.
    – JOE gave Chris the floor most of the time and interrupted Kahn on numerous occasions.
    – JOE summarized and organized Chris’s points during the debate while adding on his own. He did nothing of the sort when Dr. Kahn spoke. You don’t have to agree with someone to re-iterate their intended point.
    – JOE gave Dr. Kahn far less eye contact and asked him fewer questions.
    – JOE created an « US and THEM » dynamic by bantering and laughing with Chris… and passive aggressively sidelining Dr Kahn.
    – This was NOT a well managed or fair debate and it just got worse as it went along.
    – I think Joe owes Dr Kahn an apology for this.
    – i think Chris should thank Joe for making him sound better.

  5. Nothing Id rather do than listen to these asshats try to 1up each other

  6. Did Joe really say “let’s not interrupt each other” then proceed to cut the vegan off multiple times?

  7. A really pathetic job by Rogan here. This was essentially 2v1, which it needed to be to be mildly ‘competitive’ – a cardiologist vs a stand up comedian and an acupuncturist.

    Rogan is always virtue-signalling about how terrible factory farming is, but when he’s talking shit about vegans or here allowing the vegan diet to be misrepresented, the end result is people paying for more animal slaughter in the factory farms he claims to be so opposed to.

  8. People who have opposing thoughts sitting down and having a discussion instead of a argument. this is the world i would like to live in.

  9. the research bugs me i don't care what makes the cancer cel grow the fastest i want to know what creates that cancer cel

  10. out with the old science, lets throw einstein, tesla and newton out!

  11. But isn't paleo about eating shit that our ancestors did thousands of years ago??? So what is the problem with a study from 50 years ago?

  12. Being totally objective(I won’t say if I’m a vegan or meat eater), it’s clear that the DOCOTR understands all the studies and reviews on a deeper, scientific and intellectual level. Everything I hear from Knesser sound great if u take it at face value. Kresser is not a DOCOTR and clearly(if u really really listen) does not seem to have much of a deeper understanding of anything beyond the headlines. He keeps backing up his claims by saying ‘everyone else out there agrees with the data’,.as opposed to breaking it all down himself, displaying he understands all the claims and how everything relates to each other on “molecular” level. Kresser references blogger’ headlines, generalists study’s. I can see the doctors frustration in this conversation because he’s explaining his points and being very specific and giving scientific analysis while it appeared to me that kresser nor Rogan paid full attention. They filtered what they heard and simply reply with statements that go back to previous statement that they agree with. They aren’t listening. Confirmation bias is ubiquitous here.
    You can tell Kresser begins to realize that the Doctor is owning his statements and knocking (a lot of them) down and even intellectualizing them within the realm of irrefutable objective realities. Kresser, instead of have an open mind, becomes more cavalier….which to me is annoying and indicative that he knows his arguments are weak when analyzed by someone who actually understands biology on a level that is competent foreign to kresser.
    I’m not an expert on this subject but from what I’m hearing here, I would risk my health a lot more of what the docotr is saying. Kresser makes great points that have merit,although on the whole the doctors understanding and explanation of this subject is tremendously more lucid and accurate. Kresser backs his claims with “everyone else agrees with me” and docotr backs his claims with hard and fast studies and comprehension of information that is clearly lost(ignored) on Rogan and Kresser.
    This all being said, I could never go vegan. But I will not eat processed meats anymore and I will limit my egg consumption.

  13. Kahn was right – high ldl cholesterol is bad. Kresser was right – dietary saturated fats don't increase cholesterol levels. They got hung up on what was essentially a semantic disconnect. Kahn was stuck on the ideological principle of high cholesterol being bad, and unwilling to concede what the science clearly and unmistakably shows:
    Dietary saturated fats do !!not!! increase cholesterol, in the context of a healthy diet.

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/it-aint-the-fat-people

    This is a secondary source, but it lists 78 primary sources, linking to the studies Kresser referred to, with the meta-analyses, rct's, and totally validates his positions.

    Dr Kahn isn't wrong about high blood ldl cholesterol, or junk food, or any of the biology. He's just wrong about dietary saturated fat correlating to increases in bad cholesterol.

  14. "Cholesterol bumps into your artery wall… that's the basic biochemistry."

    That's an oversimplification as that's not the sole cause of arterial damage. Stress, oxidative and plain old life stress also causes stress on the arterial walls. LDL Pattern B and triglycerides are the problem. LDL Pattern A is pretty harmless to arterial walls and as far as triglycerides go are formed when the cholesterol lipid bonds with glycogen, aka sugar. Reduce your sugar/carb intake, which isn't a fiber, and your triglycerides drop and so does your Pattern B LDL.

    Also increasing physical activity helps reduce stress and relaxes the arteries so the damage is less likely to occur in the first place.

  15. I'm sorry but you've got to be fucking joking.
    Chris's Bio:
    – "studied Chinese and integrative medicine at the Acupuncture & Integrative Medicine College"
    – "Acupuncture & Integrative Medicine College, Berkeley"
    – "BA, Communications & Social Change"

    Yikes.

  16. I want to know if in Chris' epidemiological studies and randomized controlled trials if they checked for people currently on medication for heart disease or cardiac problems while eating red meat. That seems like one factor that might greatly skew the data in the wake of the growing pharma industry and could be the difference between the Harvard studies Kahn references.

  17. My biggest issue is that Joel keeps citing the FDA's recommendations. They are BULLSHIT and have always been BULLSHIT. The FDA is deeper in the pocket of every single processed food organization. Their recommendations are completely useless and just compound the health problem in this country because a plate with pictures of food is not a guide. Telling people to cook their own food from whole and raw is.

  18. 1940s and 1950s heart disease, was due to smoking. To Crisco and hydrogenated oils, due to corporate influence to get people to not trust their healthy generational local farm-based diets and start using effing crisco. Come on, mofo

  19. i really wish Joe would do this more often. This was WAY better than listening to someone who most people scoff at just spouting all of their views in an echo chamber. Next time Jordan Peterson is on you should have Neil Degrasse Tyson on with him. Or even someone like Rhonda Patrick. I'd love to hear her take on that all meat diet. Just feels like something I'd like to hear from someone who understands nutrients on a more sophisticated level.

  20. 1:29:20 This guy Joel drives me crazy. There's no doubt that he's smart. But he's stubborn and evasive. I find that very disingenuous and alarming. Plus he's completely wasting everyone's time by not simply looking outside of his stubborn frame of mind to recognize there are actual facts against him. He just pretends what's being said somehow is magically not being said at all. And then when pressed about it he goes on 10 minute loopy story telling fits. I've lost respect for him in the first hour and there's another 3 hours of this? Ridiculous.

  21. The study Chris is mentioning around 54:00 where eggs did not raise cholesterol was a bad designed study where they replaced the participant of who ate less eggs with instead more meat/ dairy products. The study is really bad designed and was funded by the egg industry (referenced at the end of the paper). Vegan Gains debunked this study somewhere on his channel too.

  22. It was 2v1 because the Vegan Doctor was saying some dumb shit. He quotes flawed studies. And he speaks quickly to try and get it by without Joe and Chris stopping him to correct him.

    If you want to be vegan for moral reasons good for you. Most vegan diets are a lot healthier than a "standard American diet". But you can not argue that a Vegan diet is #1 or cite these bullshit meat = cancer studies when the studies are flawed.

  23. At some point this felt like Vegan Gains vs Sv3rige. Studies being shouted left and right.

  24. "It CAN though", Dr.Joel (sounding like Homer Simpson), you haven't heard of insulin resistance or arterial oxidative stress, Dr. Joel?
    Have you seen lipidology research in the last ten years? Come on man. Chris should have SKEWERED you for that nonsense. Did the AHA tell you to say that?
    Like you dont know dietary cholesterol is nearly meaningless. Cardiologists arent interested in losing money by doing less surgeries. It's TRUE. And you know that half the people in the hospital for cardiac events have low cholesterol. TC is a nearly meaningless lab value. Come on doc. This is sad.

  25. I guess Joe couldn't get Taubes on so he settled for this fake doctor Paleo salesman.

    1. I agree. Chris’ mindset seems to be to disprove and / or question hypothesis (the definition of science); Joel does nothing but defend the status quo of what’s broadly accepted.

  26. The ad hominem arguments against Kresser are disappointing; clearly Kahn respects him, so if one appeals to the authority of being a doctor, then his view of Chris as a peer should be valid.

    Kahn employs logical fallacies that Kresser does not: constant appeals to various authorities, bandwagon justifications, subtle red herrings etc.

    Kresser predominantly questions, Kahn predominantly claims/states; with no knowledge of the subject matter at all, one would hopefully see who is employing the greater intellectual & scientific rigour.

    I admire all 3 men for engaging in this discourse, fascinating.

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